“Cristianə to whom?” the podcast we all need

Dialogue by Lorenzo Russo with Elisa Belotti, Paola Lazzarini and Sandra Letizia

"I would like to understand, as a feminist, whether the Christian faith is really in contradiction with our desire for an inclusive and non-patriarchal world, or whether instead it cannot even show itself as an ally".

It is by taking inspiration from the words of Michela Murgia that we introduce the project we present to you today: Cristianə to whom? the podcast for a feminist and queer Christianity. I asked some questions to the creators who are: Elisa Belotti, Paola Lazzarini and Sandra Letizia.

Elisa Belotti is a journalist and teacher. It deals with rights and marginalized communities inside and outside the Church. He published the investigation Faith disturbs for La Revue Dessinée Italia, illustrated by Anna Cercignano, on the abuse of religious women. For the same comic book investigative magazine he is working on a reportage on conversion therapies in Italy. He teaches Italian language and literature and is part of the teachers' collective Unjustified absences and of LGBT+ History Month Italy, dealing with relations with schools.

Paola Lazzarini has a PhD in sociology and methodology of social research, freelance journalist, trainer and guidance counselor. She is a senior researcher of the multidisciplinary research association InCreaSe, collaborates as a journalist with various newspapers, especially Catholic ones, and has long experience in the third sector. Committed to Catholic feminist activism, she founded the association Women for the Church and collaborated in the creation of the international network Catholic Women's Council and coordination against sexual abuse of minors and vulnerable people Italychurchtoo. Among the most recent publications Let women not be silent in the assembly, act as protagonists in the Church, Effatà publishing house, Cantalupa (TO) 2021.

Sandra Letizia is a theologian and teacher. He obtained a bachelor's degree in theology and is specializing in pastoral theology. He earns his living by teaching Catholic religion in lower and upper secondary schools. On her Instagram profile she deals with issues that bring feminism and sexuality closer to theology. Collaborates with LGBTQ+ organizations in Sicily. He loves playing video games, watching TV series and occasionally rewatching all things Star Wars. If she weren't as lazy as she is, she would do a lot more things.

When and why the idea to create it was born Cristianə to whom?

[Elisa Belotti] Cristianə to whom? was born in a difficult period for Italian Christian and feminist/queer people. It was 2021 and the Vatican had expressed its opinion on two interconnected issues: the blessing of queer couples (with the Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) and the Zan DDL. Discomfort and bewilderment were widespread among feminist and/or queer Catholic people, but also the desire to say "I don't fit in and I'm not the only one".
Cristianə to whom? was therefore born as a cycle of Instagram live broadcasts with two objectives. The first is to create bonds and opportunities for discussion between people who try to unite aspects of their identity that society presents to us as incompatible.
Seeing that we are not alone and understanding how other queer and/or feminist Christian people act helps us find balance, recognize ourselves and be recognized. The second motivation moves externally. With our testimonies we want to show that the Christian community is complex, varied, made up of very different spiritualities. That there are possible ways to be Christian, feminist and queer.

Given the fruitfulness of the exchanges of this first cycle, I transformed the live broadcasts into episodes of a podcast and contacted Paola and Sandra. By comparing ourselves, we modified the format a bit and continued to walk (and record) together, each bringing our own skills and experiences to the project.

How your training paths feed into the project Cristianə to whom?

[Paola Lazzarini] My professional and personal journey has been very complex, but always marked by my identity as a believer and by a strong bond with the Catholic Church, this also meant painfully discovering the most discriminatory dimension of the institution and the need to listen to my marginality as a woman and that of many others.
The meeting with Elisa and Sandra came when my commitment to women in the Church was almost all-encompassing and helped me to open up to other conditions of marginalization and also to other generations. It forced me, it forces me every day to learn new languages ​​and sensibilities and allows me to make use of many reflections built up over years, or rather decades, to build a small welcoming church space.

[Elisa Belotti] As a journalist, I bring a look at current events which is however nourished by a historical awareness of how we got here, weaving networks with other sister realities. Cristianə to whom? It's definitely the project I'm most proud of.
We are helping to build a space in which to remember and remind - even those who would like to forget - that there is space for everyone within the Church, in which to see and feel seen, to share our experiences of faith on the margins. In this, the journalistic lens pays attention to the way we communicate and the stories we tell.

[Sandra Letizia] In 2019 I opened my Instagram profile, initially with the intention of talking about body positivity, sexuality and issues related to corporeality from a feminist perspective. Every now and then I published some posts that had strong religious references and from the feedback I received I understood that there was a need to bring these themes to social media, so I gave my profile a different purpose: to talk about theology and issues relating to religion Christian from a feminist point of view.
I put the issue of body positivity aside a bit and dedicated myself more to problems related to sexuality and gender.
In the summer of 2021, Elisa contacted me to participate in her live broadcast series entitled "Cristianə a chi?", in which I took part with great enthusiasm. This is how I also met Paola, who was also a guest on one of the live broadcasts. Subsequently Elisa involved us in the project. Once the series of live broadcasts finished, he contacted Paola and me to ask us if we were interested in continuing this adventure together and creating a podcast, and so we arrived at the fifth season.

As a subtitle to the podcast we read: for a feminist and queer Christianity. To many it may seem oxymoronic, for you it is not. Tell us whyAnd!

[Sandra Letizia] Is it possible to be feminist and Christian? We want to show that not only is it possible but that it shouldn't surprise anyone; but with this I don't mean that those who, as you say, find it oxymoronic are wrong, because unfortunately due to the way the Church has positioned itself and continues to position itself towards women, it seems impossible to combine the Christian faith and feminism. However within feminism there have always been Christian women, so being both is possible. It is possible because Jesus did not come for males, but for humanity, because in Christ Jesus “there is neither Jew nor Greek; there is neither slave nor free; there is no male and female.”
We all have the same opportunities before God (well, Jesus would be an excellent minister for equal opportunities). We are aware of this and make our voice heard so that the opportunities that God has given us as human beings are respected by everyone; but not only that, we are aware that there is no inconsistency between the message of Christ and a feminist Christianity or, I would add, an intersectional feminist Christianity.
Did you know that the longest conversation Jesus had with anyone in the Gospels was with a woman? Regarding queer Christianity, we would like to remember that there is a strand of Christian theology which is precisely queer theology. In Italy it is arriving a little late (just think of the queer Bible published in December last year), but it has existed for a few decades now. These queer theologies include the importance of personal experience in the field of faith (especially that of the least and the oppressed), the idea that theology and therefore the process of knowing the divine must always be in flux, the sexual question and the need to question the binary idea of ​​existence.

In the first episode of the second season we tried to explain all this as best we could.

Among the various themes that you have covered over the course of these five seasons, there are some that shake the consciences of contemporary times. I am thinking of the issue of abortion, the issue of gender and sexual orientation, topics that are often demonised, in the worst case scenario they become taboo. Why is it important to propose this content?

[Paola Lazzarini] Because they are topics that have been taken hostage by the more traditionalist movements of the Church, who have turned them into weapons to brandish against those who are not perfectly aligned. We believe in a plural Church, in search, which recognizes conscience as a privileged place in which to discern the will of God, as Gaudium et Spes says "Conscience is the most secret nucleus and the shrine of man, where he finds himself only with God, whose voice resonates in one's intimacy", with all due respect to those who believe that being Christian means following a manual of good manners.

In many episodes of the podcast you have etymologically dialogued with various guests. In what way, if it happens, do you believe that the plurality of testimonies contributes to queering Christianity?

[Elisa Belotti] The plurality of voices brings with it the multiplication of points of view. We are not very used to this in a Church that focuses a lot on uniformity. Instead, involving different perspectives and stories helps us make the debate less polarized and simplistic and increase its complexity. The experiences that they and the guests of the podcast have shared with us and the stories that come to us from those who listen to us demonstrate this: little of what emerges is linear.
Most events, feelings and paths do not follow the norm because it is the norm that is not representative. This breakdown of the straight line, of the absolute and uniform model to be taken as a reference, is undoubtedly queer.

I really like it therethe image you propose of the Church as a living organism. Taking into consideration the concept of continuous creation, what innovations do you believe will be able to re-generate Christianity?

[Paola Lazzarini] Francis' pontificate has not changed very concretely, but it has done one fundamental thing, it has created a climate in which we can speak, a Church that can bring out its own contradictions and this is the fundamental prerequisite for any change.

[Sandra Letizia] The changes would have occurred if the Second Vatican Council had been received in all its fullness; Paola has already given a perfect example previously. And then this isn't about "newness", it's about continuing to make an effort to understand what we already are inside: the Truth. The Church is IN the truth, but does not possess it. If he stops looking for her, it's over.
Therefore I hope that the Church can continue to re-create itself by passionately trying to understand this Truth that has been given to us, without entrenching itself in comfortable positions like "it has always been said/done like this", and listening to that inexhaustible source of truth which is the sensus fidei or sensus fidelium.

Before concluding this interview, I take up one of your practices and ask you: is there anything you would like to freely add?

[Elisa Belotti] I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the people who listen to us and share their stories and impressions with us. Their participation is extremely fruitful for our podcast. The personal stories, the moments of euphoria and disorientation that are shared with us are precious and make us reflect on whether we are taking a good direction. Together we build a space for breathing and flourishing in the Church.

In thanking Elisa Belotti, Paola Lazzarini and Sandra Letizia, we remind you that Cristianə to whom? can be listened to on 8 different platforms including Spotify, Apple and Google Podcasts, Audible.

We also recommend that you follow the page Instagram @cristianeachi, where you can find lots of interesting content.

God save the Queer!